Why I don't feel ashamed of being NEET

[Guest]

Many NEETs belittle themselves with words like "loser" and "worthless". A few years ago, this was true of me as well. That changed after I realized three things.

First, terms like "loser" and "worthless" are social terms; they only make sense within the system of values and expectations I've happened to find myself in. If I'm worthless, all that means is society has failed to extract more resources from me than it has given me. If I'm a loser, all that means is society disapproves of me. Why should I value the worth of my own existence by anyone's standards but my own? This is especially true of a society I don't approve of and one which I believe has treated me poorly, mainly for being ugly and neuroatypical.

Second, I have no free will. I did not choose to be born; I did not choose my genes; I did not choose my birthplace, parents, school, socioeconomic status, and so on. Even if you don't go the full mile in rejecting free will, you'll probably agree with that much. Had I been born to different parents with different genes and so on, there's a big chance I wouldn't be a "loser". Further, I have no power over what I desire, over what I think, over what my body is doing. All of these things result from processes over which I have no control. If free will isn't real, then neither is personal/moral responsibility, and if I am not responsible for being a loser, then I should not feel shame for being one.

Third, even if I accept that the two points above are false, i.e., I accept that my situation is both bad and my fault, feeling shame does not aid whatsoever in remedying it. Shame is unnecessary and a cause of suffering.

So, funnily enough, two pessimistic ideas most normies would find depressing- that there is no free will and no objective value- have actually helped me cope and lead to a reduction in my suffering.

 

[Socrates]

I'm not ashamed either. I think being a NEET is much preferable to working a wageslave job at McDonalds or a supermarkert , which is currently my only options for a job since no uni degree yet.

 

[FastBananaCEO]

Most wageslaves are low iq NPC subhumans. U should be happy u get to be away from those evil "people"

 

[Cope Artist]

I don't know the story of your life, thus I won't be able to decide if you're right or wrong with this statement. However, speaking for myself, I am at fault, I am undeniably responsible for where I am in life currently. I could have chosen different paths, but due to my laziness and dalliance, I've always fallen behind. In highschool, some people would invite me to take a trip somewhere, or go out with them occasionally. I'd always refuse, out of fear, nothing else. Sure, I could justify this by saying, the fear I felt was not a result of my free will, but that won't change the fact that, even though I was heavily influenced by the enviroment and my past, I did have the option, and the opportunity, and over and over, I couldn't make use of them. Yes, I am at a grave disadvantage compared to others, however that also would not justify my current situation. That's why I consider myself to be a loser, and a failure, and that's why I feel shame. I know for a fact that, if I had endured some discomfort, I would not be posting here today.

 

[FastBananaCEO]

I'm not ashamed either. I think being a NEET is much preferable to working a wageslave job at McDonalds or a supermarkert , which is currently my only options for a job since no uni degree yet.

This. I'd be embarrassed to work at a place like McDonald's.

 

[KingofLDAR]

Being a NEET is based. Deep down, a large percentage of wageslaves wish they could NEET, but are unable to.

 

[Cope Artist]

Being a NEET is based. Deep down, a large percentage of wageslaves wish they could NEET, but are unable to.

They'd want to be NEET and would want to afford what their heart desires. Noone wants to be a poor NEET that eats pasta every meal.

 

[liazi]

I'm ashamed because I took some bad decisions, over and over.
I'm ashamed because at things I wanted to succeed at I failed. Sure relationships was not on me, but I tried arts, sports, games... I failed at everything.

I think no one is proud of working mcdo and supermarket, they just don't have an option.
Neeting is simply not an option for them, financially it's not doable.
I've met some who could neet but they want the money for their kids or to buy extra things as well.

I agree that calling yourself worthless and a loser is not helping, but I do compare myself to society. I do consider that in lots of aspects I'm well below average.
Some things I had no control over, some things I had control over.

And then a question, if you have "no control" over something, does that really mean you are not a loser?
e.g. If you are 5'2 and want to play basketball but everyone just outplays you physically, are you or are you not a loser? I'd say you are kind of a loser, but it's not all your fault, useless to dwell on it, but you are definitely not a winner. Your only option is not to play. Maybe you aren't a loser then, but again not a winner either.

 

[Eren]

Weren't you in the navy?

 

[NCRcel]

Nice to see a fellow determinist. Free will as a concept doesn't even make much sense if you look at the larger picture. Most geneticists and neuroscientists agree that your behavior and personality is mostly dependent on your genetic makeup, biological factors, and upbringing. Those things influence the way you behave WAY more than "free will" does.

 

[Box]

That’s nice

 

[Snorlax]

I very much disagree with how my tax-money is spent

 

[Blackguard]

I very much disagree with how my tax-money is spent

Well here in Weimarica. You pay high taxes, but don't get any real benefits. Such as healthcare or other benefits.
Its quite fucked up.

 

[N-Digger]

I completely agree with what you said and it applies exactly to my own situation. I don't feel ashamed or feel bad for being in a neet because ultimately the causes of my predicament is due to mental health factors, mainly due to Autism. There's no way I will ever be able to fit in when in the workplace or be accepted as someone with equal standing, that's even if I'm able to find employment. If employers and coworkers treat me unfairly just because I seem "off" or "weird" there's no reason for me to participate in the workforce.
These social skills and being nt are not something that are able to be learnt because it comes down to a fundamental difference in brain wiring. So even if I work hard and produce results I will always be overlooked because of something out of my control which I can't change.

 

[Abi No]

Being a NEET is based. Deep down, a large percentage of wageslaves wish they could NEET, but are unable to.

I reckon most NEET hate comes from the spitefulness of wagies who are upset over others not slaving like they are

 

[Braziliancel193]

I reckon most NEET hate comes from the spitefulness of wagies who are upset over others not slaving like they are

pretty much. Most wagies I know are miserable as fuck and cope on 4chan saying how NEETs are losers and that they don't feel that they did to be proud of.
I wouldn't be proud of waging at a dead end job like a routine, being a wagie is sign of low value, insecure, dicklet balding man.

 

[Slumbercel]

I agree so much. I never liked the self-depreciation that always happens on this kind of forums. I understand, where it comes from, but I think we should support each other and be more kind to ourselves. I don't think people deserve to be isolated and killed for being ugly or neurodivergent. Incels can be awesome people. I don't think my usefulness to the society (and I could be useful if it didn't actively exclude me) determines my worth. If a value system hurts you, you are free to simply not accept it.

I genuinely think normies could benefit from friendship with me if they ever gave me a chance. Unfortunately they are not willing to invest some time and effort and possibly benefit from it later, they want quick solutions. It doesn't only apply to their approach to ugly or neuroatypical people e. g. I know many people who pay for Memrise or Quizlet while Anki offers the same functionality and much more for free, but it doesn't have big colorful buttons by default and it may require a few minutes of setup instead of providing a one-size-fits-all solution. It's similar with people.

 

[Abi No]

pretty much. Most wagies I know are miserable as fuck and cope on 4chan saying how NEETs are losers and that they don't feel that they did to be proud of.
I wouldn't be proud of waging at a dead end job like a routine, being a wagie is sign of low value, insecure, dicklet balding man.

Not to mention the kikes who require slaves to do their jobs, of course they'll get pretty mad about those who won't

 

[Guest]

I've never been ashamed. Fuck society and the work ethic.

 

[NCRcel]

Many NEETs belittle themselves with words like "loser" and "worthless". A few years ago, this was true of me as well. That changed after I realized three things.

First, terms like "loser" and "worthless" are social terms; they only make sense within the system of values and expectations I've happened to find myself in. If I'm worthless, all that means is society has failed to extract more resources from me than it has given me. If I'm a loser, all that means is society disapproves of me. Why should I value the worth of my own existence by anyone's standards but my own? This is especially true of a society I don't approve of and one which I believe has treated me poorly, mainly for being ugly and neuroatypical.

Second, I have no free will. I did not choose to be born; I did not choose my genes; I did not choose my birthplace, parents, school, socioeconomic status, and so on. Even if you don't go the full mile in rejecting free will, you'll probably agree with that much. Had I been born to different parents with different genes and so on, there's a big chance I wouldn't be a "loser". Further, I have no power over what I desire, over what I think, over what my body is doing. All of these things result from processes over which I have no control. If free will isn't real, then neither is personal/moral responsibility, and if I am not responsible for being a loser, then I should not feel shame for being one.

Third, even if I accept that the two points above are false, i.e., I accept that my situation is both bad and my fault, feeling shame does not aid whatsoever in remedying it. Shame is unnecessary and a cause of suffering.

So, funnily enough, two pessimistic ideas most normies would find depressing- that there is no free will and no objective value- have actually helped me cope and lead to a reduction in my suffering.

I'm curious... since you also do not believe in free will, what is your thoughts on eugenics and euthanasia?

These topics are something I still struggle with, but at face value, they are clearly the utilitarian options. If someone's behavior is largely controlled by genetics, then it also means that they could identify people who carry genes that are responsible for people becoming subhumans or criminals. And if free will doesn't exist, then it would make clear sense to implement a brutal eugenics program to sterilize these people much like the Nazis did to prevent them from breeding and passing on inferior genes.

And again, if free will doesn't exist, it also means with the right science the government could identify large demographics of people who based on thier genetic makeup and biological factors are destined to commit violence/crime before doing such. And if that's the case, then involuntary euthanasia of these demographics of people is clearly the utilitarian option, even though they have not yet done anything wrong.

Even though I'm a determinist and don't believe in free will, I'm still emotionally opposed to those things. Even if they're clearly the rational option. These kinds of existential problems keep me up at night.

 

[Guest]

I'm curious... since you also do not believe in free will, what is your thoughts on eugenics and euthanasia?

These topics are something I still struggle with, but at face value, they are clearly the utilitarian options. If someone's behavior is largely controlled by genetics, then it also means that they could identify people who carry genes that are responsible for people becoming subhumans or criminals. And if free will doesn't exist, then it would make clear sense to implement a brutal eugenics program to sterilize these people much like the Nazis did to prevent them from breeding and passing on inferior genes.

And again, if free will doesn't exist, it also means with the right science the government could identify large demographics of people who based on thier genetic makeup and biological factors are destined to commit violence/crime before doing such. And if that's the case, then involuntary euthanasia of these demographics of people is clearly the utilitarian option, even though they have not yet done anything wrong.

Even though I'm a determinist and don't believe in free will, I'm still emotionally opposed to those things. Even if they're clearly the rational option. These kinds of existential problems keep me up at night.

My moral intuition is consequentialism with a priority on suffering reduction. Eugenics and euthanasia could definitely in theory reduce the amount of suffering on earth. In some cases I think it's obvious: for example, terminally ill people who choose euthanasia voluntarily, or people who slightly modify their germ line to prevent their children from developing an awful disease. However, they could have the opposite effect if not used properly. Genetic engineering has the potential to do far more than just eliminate disease; it could completely change the nature of human existence, having the potential to increase our capacity to suffer to the same extent, or greater, that it increased between our primate ancestors and us. Involuntary euthanasia could have bad consequences as well; for example, it could be used to enforce a kind of society that causes a lot of suffering. So while I have no moral opposition to either of those things, they should be used carefully.

 

[Guest]

My moral intuition is consequentialism with a priority on suffering reduction. Eugenics and euthanasia could definitely in theory reduce the amount of suffering on earth. In some cases I think it's obvious: for example, terminally ill people who choose euthanasia voluntarily, or people who slightly modify their germ line to prevent their children from developing an awful disease. However, they could have the opposite effect if not used properly. Genetic engineering has the potential to to far more than just eliminate disease; it could completely change the nature of human existence, having the potential to increase our capacity to suffer to the same extent, or greater, that it increased between our primate ancestors and us. Involuntary euthanasia could have bad consequences as well; for example, it could be used to enforce a kind of society that causes a lot of suffering. So while I have no moral opposition to either of those things, they should be used carefully.

What do you think of antinatalism?

 

[Eren]

My moral intuition is consequentialism with a priority on suffering reduction. Eugenics and euthanasia could definitely in theory reduce the amount of suffering on earth. In some cases I think it's obvious: for example, terminally ill people who choose euthanasia voluntarily, or people who slightly modify their germ line to prevent their children from developing an awful disease. However, they could have the opposite effect if not used properly. Genetic engineering has the potential to to far more than just eliminate disease; it could completely change the nature of human existence, having the potential to increase our capacity to suffer to the same extent, or greater, that it increased between our primate ancestors and us. Involuntary euthanasia could have bad consequences as well; for example, it could be used to enforce a kind of society that causes a lot of suffering. So while I have no moral opposition to either of those things, they should be used carefully.

Based but utopian ideas. Will never come to fruition (I mean in this idealistic way where they fix the world).

 

[Guest]

What do you think of antinatalism?

I think they're on the right track, but antinatalism can't survive for evolutionary reasons. Genes tending to produce antinatalist beliefs will die out, leaving behind the natalists. It doesn't solve the issue of suffering.

 

[Red]

i don't either kind of silly how people will demonize anyones life if it's different from there's

 

[jaded jabble]

i don't either kind of silly how people will demonize anyones life if it's different from there's

 

[ricacel]

agree, wagiecuck are slaves of the system

 

[gigacel123]

Giga Level IQ. I knew you were always a wise and fantastic mod. Sorry @knajjd, but you have a contender for the #1 spot on my favorite moderator list.

 

[NEETCurious]

 

[vomit]

Cool